User talk:Work permit

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Archive 1 - August 30, 2009 Archive 2 - July 2019

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Convention to propose amendments to the United States Constitution, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use the sandbox for that. Thank you. Bettering the Wiki (talk) 06:53, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-12T06:53:00.000Z","author":"Goodone121","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Goodone121-2019-08-12T06:53:00.000Z-August_2019","replies":["c-Work_permit-2019-08-12T11:51:00.000Z-Goodone121-2019-08-12T06:53:00.000Z","c-Work_permit-2019-08-12T12:22:00.000Z-Goodone121-2019-08-12T06:53:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Bettering the Wiki"}}-->

@Goodone121: I did give my reasons, in the edit summary as well as the talk page. Did you not notice? ---- Work permit (talk) 11:51, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-12T11:51:00.000Z","author":"Work permit","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Work_permit-2019-08-12T11:51:00.000Z-Goodone121-2019-08-12T06:53:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"-- Work permit"}}-->

I appreciate your vandal patrols, but please think before you Wikipedia:DTR. You may not realize this, but before I deleted the section, I fixed the reference so the link to it would work. I also fixed the title and author of the reference. By reverting all my edits, you left the article in a broken state. I suggest you read the reference. It is an opinion piece that discusses the pitfalls of calling a convention. All those pitfalls are discussed in two previous sections of the article, with better sourcing. I suggest we discuss this on the articles talk page. I created a section on the topic before I made my edit. Cheers.---- Work permit (talk) 12:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-12T12:22:00.000Z","author":"Work permit","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Work_permit-2019-08-12T12:22:00.000Z-Goodone121-2019-08-12T06:53:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"-- Work permit"}}-->

It is exactly as you suggested in your question on my talk page. Somebody happened by, somebody without any knowledge of the topic, and just put a citation-needed tag at the end of every paragraph that didn't end with a footnote. Check the other subsections I did not fix, and you will see the modus-operandi. I happen to have done some work on Richelieu, and the demands for a citation are already responded to in other citations in the paragraph. Wikipedia editorial best practices does NOT require every sentence to have a citation, far from it. And it is people who don't understand scholarship, or don't read the article, or don't refer to the citations already there, who create so many messes. Thanks for your question, and your vigilance. If you still think I have done an injustice, feel free to revert the edit.

P.S. I got a "Thank you" from another editor for my deletions on Richelieu.

--Vicedomino (talk) 05:14, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-13T05:14:00.000Z","author":"Vicedomino","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Vicedomino-2019-08-13T05:14:00.000Z-Re:_Richelieu_article","replies":[]}}-->

I was about to send you a note of thanks for your help, after reposting my edit on TVBH - but Roxy has just reverted me again! This is crazy. I don't understand him. He said on the article talk page he "accepted" the outcome of the WP:30 comments. So that's a WP:3R violation. I'm en route to bed right now, but I'll be going to Admins Noticeboard tomorrow. If you have any suggestions in the meantime, please leave them on my talk page. Textorus (talk) 10:48, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-23T10:48:00.000Z","author":"Textorus","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Textorus-2019-08-23T10:48:00.000Z-The_Vineyard_Beverly_Hills","replies":["c-Textorus-2019-08-24T01:58:00.000Z-Textorus-2019-08-23T10:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

I got your message on my talk page, Wp. I was pretty steamed last night after I walked into Roxy's little trap and got blindsided by his third revert. He set me up for that - deliberately and maliciously, and with egregious bad faith. But then as I was pondering my next move, I realized once again - after many years of wikiediting - that there is just no point in dicking around with a bad actor who obviously has no interest in improving the article, or in building an encyclopedia. There is no honest difference of opinion here. His actions are entirely self-serving, maliciously preventing anyone from adding a single word to the article. How deranged is that?

And he lied about his intentions - I gave him two clear opportunities to state his position on the talk page of the article, and he deliberately misled me, you, and Maproom. He lied and did it deliberately in such a way that he can now claim to have been misunderstood, and so make a pretense of blamelessness. I used to know kids like that in school, and later adults like that in the workplace. Deliberate, self-serving manipulators without a conscience, egomaniacs without shame or purpose. The only thing they really want is attention - good, bad, or ugly, any kind will do as long as they are the center of it.

Such behavior is beneath contempt, and a complete waste of our time here. I see by your userpage, Wp, that you have spent a lot of time doing good works here on the project, and have been helpful to many people. And I thank you for what you have tried to do with this article. But I'm not dealing with a liar and manipulator any further. You have my permission to re-upload my edit at any future time if you think it will improve the article. But as far as I'm concerned - I'm not wasting my time on a pointless fight over nothing worth gaining. And I'm not going to enable that bad behavior by giving him the attention he so desperately wants.

That is the fatal flaw of Wikipedia, which it seems I have to keep reminding myself of every so often - the article is manifestly bad as it stands, and Roxy is patently acting in bad faith - this should be an open-and-shut case. But there is no wikiadult in the room to bring this matter to a swift conclusion, no cop on the beat - Roxy knows none of these dispute actions have any teeth unless it finally goes all the way to Arbcom, or he manages to piss off an Admin along the way. And he relishes the thought of a protracted dispute - he enjoys stirring everybody up - he craves the attention - he is laughing his ass off at us. He knows he is acting in bad faith and obstructing good edits - and he doesn't care - it's all just a self-serving game to him.

Wikipedia encourages and rewards that kind of petty, pointless behavior: how many million hours of dispute and how many million words of typing have been wasted by good faith editors trying to bring bad actors around to a sane and sensible point of view? When all they really care about is feeding their miserable egos? I decided years ago that I would not participate in those stupid little games anymore, and since then I have enjoyed the peaceful pastime of making mostly small edits without controversy or game-playing. But I forget sometimes, and have to be reminded of the futility of all that. And boy has this been a great reminder - right up side the head. Why should I waste even 5 minutes of my "golden years" in retirement on arguing with assholes? This is my time, not theirs. Forget it!

I know my worth as an editor, and it doesn't depend on pretense and lies. I woke up this morning with a much clearer view and a lighter heart. If Roxy wants to own the article, I say let him. And what exactly does that do for him? King of a three-line article! Hahahahaha! What a ridiculous, pathetic little boy! A spoiled, selfish brat clutching a broken toy he won't let anyone fix or even touch! Hahahahaha!

Now you go on and do what you want to from this point, Wp, but I'm done. I have a hundred other lovely ways to spend my time. Textorus (talk) 01:58, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-24T01:58:00.000Z","author":"Textorus","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Textorus-2019-08-24T01:58:00.000Z-Textorus-2019-08-23T10:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-Work_permit-2019-08-24T03:21:00.000Z-Textorus-2019-08-24T01:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Textorus: Hey, I know how you feel because I feel just the same. I appreciate your comment about me. From your userpage and edit history I also know you're a quality editor. I was willing to back you up in resolving this if you wanted to. But walking away is the right thing to do. It's important not care more about an article just because some editor is being disruptive. Like you said, this is a stupid little three sentence article with less than 1000 views a month (before the hub bub).-- Work permit (talk) 03:21, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-24T03:21:00.000Z","author":"Work permit","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Work_permit-2019-08-24T03:21:00.000Z-Textorus-2019-08-24T01:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Textorus-2019-08-24T14:59:00.000Z-Work_permit-2019-08-24T03:21:00.000Z"],"displayName":"-- Work permit"}}-->

Thanks for this affirmation, Wp. You're a good man. Textorus (talk) 14:59, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-24T14:59:00.000Z","author":"Textorus","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Textorus-2019-08-24T14:59:00.000Z-Work_permit-2019-08-24T03:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

		The Third Opinion Award
		From one good guy to another, with gratitude for your support on TVBH. — Textorus (talk) 14:59, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-24T14:59:00.000Z","author":"Textorus","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Textorus-2019-08-24T14:59:00.000Z-The_Vineyard_Beverly_Hills","replies":["c-Textorus-2019-08-24T16:24:00.000Z-Textorus-2019-08-24T14:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for the civility barnstar - appreciate ya, buddy. Next time you're in the wikibar, the drinks are on me. Textorus (talk) 16:24, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-24T16:24:00.000Z","author":"Textorus","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Textorus-2019-08-24T16:24:00.000Z-Textorus-2019-08-24T14:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

@Work permit: OK on my mobile device it did but that Fixed it Jack90s15 (talk) 06:28, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-09-18T06:28:00.000Z","author":"Jack90s15","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jack90s15-2019-09-18T06:28:00.000Z-Fixed","replies":[]}}-->

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@Work permit:, do you believe, as I do, that the following lede, as discussed on the Right-libertarianism talk page, is a reasonable compromise? The last sentence of the existing article is moved to the front of the lede, along with other minor clarifications, to avoid confusion for the reader, and to clarify the use and purpose of the term. I would like to put this dispute to rest, but the current lede just doesn't sit right. It mistakes for the term a greater use - and usefulness - than the numbers indicate.

JLMadrigal @ 02:48, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-03-02T02:48:00.000Z","author":"JLMadrigal","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JLMadrigal-2020-03-02T02:48:00.000Z-Proposed_lede_for_Right-libertarianism_article","replies":[]}}-->

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