Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football

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On 4 August 2022, it was proposed that this page be moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject Association football. The result of the discussion was not moved.

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There was the Turkish National Division from 1937 to 1950; the Turkish Federation Cup from 1956 to 1958; and Süper Lig from 1959 onwards. What was the league system between 1950 and 1956? Trying to work out what leagues Coşkun Taş played in (for categorisation purposes), as he was active in Turkey between 1951 and 1959. GiantSnowman 17:46, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240622174600","author":"GiantSnowman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GiantSnowman-20240622174600-League_football_in_Turkey","replies":["c-GiantSnowman-20240622174600-GiantSnowman-20240622174600"],"displayName":"Giant"}}-->

Would it have been the regional Istanbul Football League? GiantSnowman 17:46, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240622174600","author":"GiantSnowman","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GiantSnowman-20240622174600-GiantSnowman-20240622174600","replies":[],"displayName":"Giant"}}-->

Does anyone know of an example of a Module:Sports table for football, where there is an additional column for 'bonus points' or points carried forward from a previous phase ? I am looking to develop a better solution to the league tables for 2022–23 Lebanese Premier League and 2023–24 Lebanese Premier League, where the competition is split after a certain number of matches into an upper section and lower section. However, only half the points from the first round carry forward, which I think necessitates two tables (all teams before the split, and a second split table). I can't easily find where to get the additional column, except for in the templates associated with Module:Sports table/Rugby, from which I'm assuming the coding is not transferrable. It has been done already without additional columns by using the adjust_points_ and a comment for each team, but that seems quite inelegant. Matilda Maniac (talk) 07:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240623073200","author":"Matilda Maniac","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Matilda_Maniac-20240623073200-New_(or_altered)_table_format_request","replies":["c-Jts1882-20240623131600-Matilda_Maniac-20240623073200"]}}-->

Can you use Module:Sports table/Custom?  —  Jts1882 | talk  13:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240623131600","author":"Jts1882","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jts1882-20240623131600-Matilda_Maniac-20240623073200","replies":["c-Matilda_Maniac-20240623224800-Jts1882-20240623131600"]}}-->

I will try. Matilda Maniac (talk) 22:48, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240623224800","author":"Matilda Maniac","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Matilda_Maniac-20240623224800-Jts1882-20240623131600","replies":[]}}-->

I'm sure some of you noticed on your watchlists aggressive vandal edits going on for the last few days. I first noticed it on Gary Medel's page. Upon further check, it seems that all these vandal sockpuppets target current players of Boca Juniors. What's the most efficient way to deal with this? I guess some kind of temporary IP ban is needed? Reporting individual users to ANI seems useless. I submitted a couple of pages for increasing protection, but no action was taken (on account that many more pages need protection and not just one). --BlameRuiner (talk) 10:01, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240623100100","author":"BlameRuiner","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlameRuiner-20240623100100-Aggressive_vandalism_against_Boca_Juniors_players_ongoing","replies":["c-GiantSnowman-20240623132700-BlameRuiner-20240623100100"]}}-->

What users/pages? I'll take a look. GiantSnowman 13:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240623132700","author":"GiantSnowman","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GiantSnowman-20240623132700-BlameRuiner-20240623100100","replies":["c-BlameRuiner-20240626065900-GiantSnowman-20240623132700"],"displayName":"Giant"}}-->

It's under control now, all the articles got protected for a year. --BlameRuiner (talk) 06:59, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240626065900","author":"BlameRuiner","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-BlameRuiner-20240626065900-GiantSnowman-20240623132700","replies":[]}}-->

https://x.com/clubleonfc/status/1805647574088794494 47.161.79.245 (talk) 19:05, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240625190500","author":"47.161.79.245","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-47.161.79.245-20240625190500-New_logo_for_Club_Le\u00f3n_of_the_Liga_MX","replies":["c-RedPatch-20240626133600-47.161.79.245-20240625190500"]}}-->

Done. Couldn't find one without the background, so put that up temporarily RedPatch (talk) 13:36, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240626133600","author":"RedPatch","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-RedPatch-20240626133600-47.161.79.245-20240625190500","replies":[]}}-->

It's existed for 17 years but do we need this article breaking out one specific decade from the main article History of Aston Villa F.C. (1874–1961)? I've never come across any other article as specific as "[Club] in [decade]"......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240626152100","author":"ChrisTheDude","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ChrisTheDude-20240626152100-Aston_Villa_F.C._in_the_1880s","replies":["c-Sgubaldo-20240626163800-ChrisTheDude-20240626152100"]}}-->

It's not in great shape because it's moreso a list of FA Cup matches than a 'History of' article. It seems to exist in place of the articles on Aston Villa seasons from 1881–82 to 1887–88, which are redirects to various sections of this one. Sgubaldo (talk) 16:38, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240626163800","author":"Sgubaldo","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Sgubaldo-20240626163800-ChrisTheDude-20240626152100","replies":[]}}-->

I have a question : in english, we can notice Abukari Damba whereas in polish it's Abubakari Damba. I don't know the correct name but in NFT, it's Abubakari Damba. So is it Abukari or Abubakari Damba ? Cordially. --FCNantes72 (talk) 22:51, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240626225100","author":"FCNantes72","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FCNantes72-20240626225100-Abukari_Damba","replies":["c-2A02:8429:3D72:8901:F533:5715:360D:78E9-20240629142000-FCNantes72-20240626225100"]}}-->

no answer ? 2A02:8429:3D72:8901:F533:5715:360D:78E9 (talk) 14:20, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629142000","author":"2A02:8429:3D72:8901:F533:5715:360D:78E9","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-2A02:8429:3D72:8901:F533:5715:360D:78E9-20240629142000-FCNantes72-20240626225100","replies":["c-Iggy_the_Swan-20240629215900-2A02:8429:3D72:8901:F533:5715:360D:78E9-20240629142000"]}}-->

What a tricky scenario: based on Twitter, it's the shortened version for the first name used but more than twice the pages from Google site results show the longer version. What I can say is that it is the same person but sources and other websites, including those run by his home country, are obviously inconsistent to say for definite which name Wikipedia should use for the article and talk page titles. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:59, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629215900","author":"Iggy the Swan","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Iggy_the_Swan-20240629215900-2A02:8429:3D72:8901:F533:5715:360D:78E9-20240629142000","replies":[],"displayName":"Iggy"}}-->

I see Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Links lists englandstats.com as reliable. I'm doing a GA review of Norman Hunter (footballer) and am checking source reliability. Per this page the site is the work of one fan. Can anyone point me at a discussion of why this site is considered reliable? I'm not suggesting the site has incorrect data, just looking for e.g. evidence that the site is treated as reliable by professional journalists, for example, or endorsements by professional football statisticians. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240628120600","author":"Mike Christie","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mike_Christie-20240628120600-Englandstats.com","replies":["c-Black_Kite-20240628123900-Mike_Christie-20240628120600"]}}-->

• I believe it is treated as more reliable than the usual one-man-band websites as, per its About page, it checks results and stats against independent sources. Having said that, in Hunter's article it only appears to be sourcing the result of that Spain-England game, not the rest of the sentence, so it could be replaced with any RS report on the game (i.e. [1]). Black Kite (talk) 12:39, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240628123900","author":"Black Kite","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Black_Kite-20240628123900-Mike_Christie-20240628120600","replies":["c-Mike_Christie-20240628144200-Black_Kite-20240628123900"]}}-->

  That will resolve it for GA, so thanks. I wonder if it belongs on the projects RS page, though, if it's really a one man operation without external validation? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:42, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240628144200","author":"Mike Christie","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mike_Christie-20240628144200-Black_Kite-20240628123900","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, everyone. Besides the site raised by Mike above, there are three others cited for Norman Hunter and elsewhere, including some reviewed articles. These are:

• https://www.fa-cupfinals.co.uk/
• http://www.englandfootballonline.com
• http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk

Obviously, the last two are not fully secure. I would prefer not to use them, but I'd be interested in knowing what others think. Thanks. PearlyGigs (talk) 07:46, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629074600","author":"PearlyGigs","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-PearlyGigs-20240629074600-Reliability_of_three_more_sites","replies":["c-Struway2-20240629093300-PearlyGigs-20240629074600"]}}-->

England Football Online yes:

see a couple of previous discussions at this project page: #1 #2 (some of the external links from those discussions no longer work)

fa-cupfinals.co.uk no:

can't find any sign of who runs it, its FAQ page includes the likes of "The FA Cup Final 2024 is on Saturday the 25th of May. The time of the final has yet to be confirmed. Last years time of kick off was 4:30pm GMT so this years is likely to be the same or similar" and continues in the same or similar vein, and it has an unhealthy interest in and enthusiasm for crypto betting. If all you need it for is proof that Hunter played and lost in the 1965 final, use 11v11 or suchlike.

mightyleeds is the interesting one:

I'd always thought of it as a decent enough one-man-band Leeds fansite and that's all, but having taken a closer look, the one man concerned, Dave Tomlinson, has written several books on Leeds United history. Some are self published, but three 1, 2, 3, were published by Amberley and one by Pitch Publishing. Both imprints are reputable commercial publishers of sports books. Maybe that makes him enough of a subject-matter expert for his website to be RS. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:33, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629093300","author":"Struway2","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Struway2-20240629093300-PearlyGigs-20240629074600","replies":["c-Crowsus-20240629100200-Struway2-20240629093300","c-PearlyGigs-20240629100300-Struway2-20240629093300"]}}-->

I would concur entirely with Struway's assessment of these. Crowsus (talk) 10:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629100200","author":"Crowsus","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Crowsus-20240629100200-Struway2-20240629093300","replies":["c-GiantSnowman-20240629110200-Crowsus-20240629100200"]}}-->

Yes, agreed. GiantSnowman 11:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629110200","author":"GiantSnowman","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-GiantSnowman-20240629110200-Crowsus-20240629100200","replies":[],"displayName":"Giant"}}-->

Thanks, Struway2 and Crowsus. I wasn't aware that Dave Tomlinson is "Mighty Leeds". He has written some good books so I think he probably should be considered an SME. The cup finals one crops up in over 160 articles so maybe we need to investigate those? PearlyGigs (talk) 10:03, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629100300","author":"PearlyGigs","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-PearlyGigs-20240629100300-Struway2-20240629093300","replies":[]}}-->

Is the naming of this (boys rather than mens) right? GiantSnowman 10:29, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629102900","author":"GiantSnowman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GiantSnowman-20240629102900-United_States_boys'_national_under-15_soccer_team","replies":["c-ChrisTheDude-20240629105600-GiantSnowman-20240629102900"],"displayName":"Giant"}}-->

Well, 14/15 year olds clearly aren't men so that would be a weird name to use..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:56, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629105600","author":"ChrisTheDude","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ChrisTheDude-20240629105600-GiantSnowman-20240629102900","replies":["c-ChrisTheDude-20240629111200-ChrisTheDude-20240629105600","c-SuperJew-20240629204400-ChrisTheDude-20240629105600"]}}-->

Not to mention the fact that they primarily compete in a competition which is called the CONCACAF Boys' Under-15 Championship -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629111200","author":"ChrisTheDude","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-ChrisTheDude-20240629111200-ChrisTheDude-20240629105600","replies":["c-GiantSnowman-20240629111700-ChrisTheDude-20240629111200"]}}-->

OK, fair. GiantSnowman 11:17, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629111700","author":"GiantSnowman","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-GiantSnowman-20240629111700-ChrisTheDude-20240629111200","replies":[],"displayName":"Giant"}}-->

At what age do boys become men? 🤔 --SuperJew (talk) 20:44, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629204400","author":"SuperJew","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SuperJew-20240629204400-ChrisTheDude-20240629105600","replies":["c-Iggy_the_Swan-20240629221600-SuperJew-20240629204400"]}}-->

That is considered to be different among humans, for me I consider between 16 and 18 when you finished growing. So I also think the naming seems right. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 22:16, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629221600","author":"Iggy the Swan","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Iggy_the_Swan-20240629221600-SuperJew-20240629204400","replies":["c-SuperJew-20240629221900-Iggy_the_Swan-20240629221600"],"displayName":"Iggy"}}-->

So for example the Joeys Australia men's national under-17 soccer team is correctly named or should it be moved to Australia boys' national under-17 soccer team? (They're also competing in the 2024 ASEAN U-16 Boys Championship (which had it's name changed this year)) --SuperJew (talk) 22:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629221900","author":"SuperJew","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-SuperJew-20240629221900-Iggy_the_Swan-20240629221600","replies":["c-Robby.is.on-20240629224200-SuperJew-20240629221900"]}}-->

"How do WP:RS refer to the team?" would be the question to ask, I reckon? Robby.is.on (talk) 22:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629224200","author":"Robby.is.on","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Robby.is.on-20240629224200-SuperJew-20240629221900","replies":["c-SuperJew-20240629225100-Robby.is.on-20240629224200"]}}-->

Mostly as Joeys ([2], [3], [4]) or Subway Joeys ([5], [6]). In general Aussie media refer to the soccer teams by their nicknames. --SuperJew (talk) 22:51, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629225100","author":"SuperJew","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-SuperJew-20240629225100-Robby.is.on-20240629224200","replies":[]}}-->

Is there a consensus on if these stats should be in a Continental/Europe column or in an Other column? I corrected the table formatting for Vincent Montella yesterday to make it in line with the MOS standard and was curious where his Intertoto Cup stats with Sampdoria during the 1998–99 season should go. I put them in Europe for the time being but feel like they probably better belong in Other. My thinking is that when the competition existed it was a summer tournament for qualification into the UEFA Cup and I don't think UEFA really keeps records for the tournament either as it does with the UCL, UEL, UECL, or the old Cup Winners Cup, and so it doesn't feel like a "proper" tournament. Thanks. Rupert1904 (talk) 16:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629162400","author":"Rupert1904","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rupert1904-20240629162400-UEFA_Intertoto_Cup_stats","replies":["c-Stevie_fae_Scotland-20240629195100-Rupert1904-20240629162400"]}}-->

I'd count them as European matches. UEFA organised the competition so I can't see why they wouldn't count as European matches. They were essentially a precursor to the 47 million qualifying matches that we have now. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 19:51, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629195100","author":"Stevie fae Scotland","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Stevie_fae_Scotland-20240629195100-Rupert1904-20240629162400","replies":[]}}-->